Kicking Erwin Schrödinger out of my idols. Not because he chose a cat for his thought experiment, but because of one thing I learnt: he sexually abused children and kept a diary about it. 🤮 Src: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwin_Schr%C3%B6dinger#Sexual_abuse
@davidrevoy
I wish I could read the Irish Times article referenced in this Wikipedia page
@jrod3737 Same, I was sad reference [43] was behind this very strong paywall. I couldn't also digg into this part because of that.
@globcoco I learnt it thanks to a post (in French) by @etcetera
https://framapiaf.org/deck/@etcetera@c.im/111470362386014100 , I then told them in PM about my intention to relay the info not as a boost, but with a cartoon. The reason: I had a scenario for a future episode in draft with a big reference to Schrödinger's cat experiment. I immediately put it to trash without regret.
@davidrevoy eh, thanks for ruining my otherwise perfect Sunday 😕
Geez, this passage from Wikipedia is disgusting:
he stated a "predilection for teenage girls on the grounds that their innocence was the ideal match for his natural genius"
@lutzray Yes, disguting. I learnt it yesterday and then I couldn't believe most of the biography I read or portrait on video put that big part of his life to silence. Even the French Wikipedia page doesn't mention it ...
Btw, sorry for the bad 'sunday timing'. I couldn't hold this info I learnt yesterday evening, I had to make a a drawing about it to reflect about it. Schrödinger cat box is so pop culture. I saw it on so many meme...
@davidrevoy Oof, this makes being named after him a rather grim topic from now on :c
@eest9 Oh no, I'm sorry for you. 😔
I don't think that information was publicly available until quite recently. I watch a lot of science videos and I've never heard of this.
A friend recently told me something about this kind of thing: when a band, a personality, a character has this thing, it's a new death for them. You were named when the clean and brilliant reputation was still alive and only info available. I hope you'll be able to keep the positive aspect of this name.
@davidrevoy I hope so. I'll probably tell the origin story of my name far less in the future and exclusively with a note in regard to this.
Yes, it looks like the oldest mention is a biography from 1990, and it wasn't widely recognized until 2021, when more information about it came public?
@eest9 I don't know. Pages like the French one on Wikipedia doesn't even mention it...
[edit: Someone added the info to the FR wikipedia page 10min ago, thanks! https://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Erwin_Schr%C3%B6dinger&action=history 👍 ]
@davidrevoy C'est répugnant. Et le pire c'est que je suis certain qu'une vaste partie de l'humanité n'en a rien a foutre. 
@pepper1700 Oh oui. Le gars est décédé en 1961, et ça refait surface dans sa bio Wikipedia (en Anglais, toujours pas en Français d'ailleurs) seulement récemment. Comme si les infos était sortie du néant après 2021. Il y a du avoir de longs silences pour protéger un héritage de réputation et de grand homme de science... Dégoutant.
@davidrevoy l'article en français, ne semble pas y faire référence.
@tomtoom Oui, mais je vois quelqu'un⋅e sur la tâche depuis 18h57 https://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Erwin_Schr%C3%B6dinger&action=history , et un gros merci pour ça si iel nous lit 💜.
Merci de l'info !
@elzen Coucou. Ha oui, utile. Mais je ne pense pas que je tiendrai rigueur à quiquonque d'être élogieux avec l'homme comme ces infos sont encore (et c'est surprenant alors qu'il est mort en 1961) très fraîche. Peut-être dans cinq ans d'ici là si ça ce sait plus, ça sera un peu plus problématique d''être élogieux.
Ici, j'avais un scénario en cours très "Schrödinger-centric" avec Pepper qui demandais à Carrot d'inviter ses potes pour faire une expérience avec boites, potion et marteau. Poubelle.
@davidrevoy 🤮 I will put him in my list of famous child abusers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_petitions_against_age_of_consent_laws#Signatories_to_the_January_petition
@carlschwan Thanks for maintaining this Wiki page, difficult topic. 👍
De mon côté je parle surtout du chat parce que c'est difficilement contournable dans un chapitre sur la physique quantique, mais je ne m'étais jamais intéressé au bonhomme lui-même. Ben je crois que je ne le ferai pas tellement plus, du coup…
(D'ailleurs, pour la petite histoire, il n'est même pas le premier à avoir proposé cette expérience de pensée, Einstein avait publié presque la même un peu plus tôt, mais avec un baril de poudre qui explose ou pas à la place du chat, donc c'était moins vendeur.)
@Christo I know... But I always had this bias to old scientifics, you know: Isaac Newton, Paul Dirac, Edwin Hubble, Albert Einstein, etc... For me this one was a solid 'part of the band' of my group of persons I liked to read biography, see video about their accomplishement and all. His 'Schrödinger's cat' is so pop-culture now. I laughted at so many meme.
I grief I'll not enjoy all of this in the same way now.
@davidrevoy I'm not maintaining it, it's just a list of famous french intellectuals who signed a petition against the age of consent and many of them were involved in child grooming :(
@davidrevoy La liste des personnalités adulées qui s'étaient comportés comme des crevards est affreusement longue. Je crois qu'on devrait séparer l'artiste de son oeuvre, parce que si on se met à jeter les réalisations de toutes personnes qui ont été unsafe, ça risque d'être une hécatombe.
@stemy Tu as raison. Reste cependant le dégout qui donne moins envie de citer sous forme de pop-culture humoristique l'expérience du chat Schrödinger; un projet que j'avais pour les prochains épisode de Pepper&Carrot mais qui va être réecrit pour le coup car j'ai plus la motiv de faire des éloges indirectement au bonhomme après ça.
@davidrevoy À la lumière de ces révélation, peut-on dire qu'on l'apprécie et ne l'apprécie pas en même temps ?
@davidrevoy Oumf. I knew about it (I learnt it recently), and it's so, so painful. « Jamais de héros » is my motto, but it's difficult to maintain.
@lamecarlate Oh yes, difficult to follow this motto that I understand perfectly!
(But then my brain starts exception for Pratchett, Bowie, Toriyama, Loomis, Tsukasa Hojo, etc... etc... 😆)
@davidrevoy Thanks for this info. I will try to never refer to him again. Maybe I'll only ever call it the "Quantum Cat" experiment?
@scottcarlson I think if I need to refer to it, I'll use "Einstein unstable keg of gunpowder" that came a bit before with the same metaphor, but the story with the cat of Schrödinger did stick better in history : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger%27s_cat#Origin_and_motivation
@davidrevoy Minutes after reading this, I learned that the creator of the famous Gill Sans font, also called the "British Helvetica," Eric Gill, had sex with his daughters, his sisters and his dog. Is today National Disillusionment Day?
@davidrevoy @jrod3737 Here you go: https://web.archive.org/web/20230430001350/https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/how-erwin-schrodinger-indulged-his-lolita-complex-in-ireland-1.4749204
(I’m a subscriber so consider this a gift link – they really should do gift links.)
One of the relatively unacknowledged risks to public health is the sexual abuse of children.
So much evidence of societal trauma exists, yet it is ignored as a public health issue.
South Korean & Japanese women so traumatized by the rampant misogyny of their cultures, that the birth rate had plummeted.
Male supremacy has economic consequences
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/03/south-korea-fertility-rate-misogyny-feminism/673435/
New Zealand evidence that child victims of sexual abuse have reduced life expectancy of 10 to 20 years less
1/2
Residential schools & child sexual abuse in New Zealand, Australia, UK, & Canada
https://www.news.library.auckland.ac.nz/2017/10/06/native-schools/
https://interactive.aljazeera.com/aje/2017/quite-genocide/index.html
Irish & Italian Catholic abuse that triggered a diaspora of immigrants & rates of alcoholism
https://ps.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.ps.53.8.1001
American churches hiding massive sexual abuse scandals (Catholic, Baptist, Mormon, Jewish, Jehovah Witness, Sikh, etc) and an onslaught of gun violence & suicidal behavior.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/05/31/feature/the-epidemic-of-denial-about-sexual-abuse-in-the-evangelical-church/
https://www.msnbc.com/the-reidout/reidout-blog/illinois-catholic-church-child-abuse-rcna86289
@Npars01 Thank you for all this links to continue on the topic. I'll probably read them another evening. It's a bit too heavy and I need to dip only a small toes into these waters for a limited time per day. But I'll do as I think information about it must be spread and understood by the largest part possible of the population.
@davidrevoy I'll never look at the logos of the BBC, Tommy Hilfiger, Wikimedia or Philips the same way again.
@eribosot 'Good' to see it is well documented too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Gill#Sexual_abuse , thank you for the info.
@davidrevoy didn't see Schrodinger being milkshake ducked for me in 2023, but here we are
@astralaegis Same.
(And TIL for "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milkshake_Duck" expression. Thank you, very interesting to know it.)
@stemy @davidrevoy C’est vrai que ce genre de sujet est délicat, je trouve. Si le type est effectivement dégoûtant, l’équation et cette expérience restent des trucs importants dans l’Histoire de la Science (et c’est effectivement loin d’être le seul).
Comment on pourrait continuer à propager le principe de l’expérience sans en glorifier l’auteur ? 🤔
Parce qui si on commence à jeter des progrès et autres avancées sous prétexte qu’une ordure les a créés, ou simplement répétés parfois, ça va être difficile :/
@breizh @stemy De toute façon, la science, l'equation reste 'vrai jusqu'a preuve du contraire', et j'imagine que plein de monde dégeux ont fait avancé la science, pour parfois de très mauvaise raisons (je fais confiance à l'humanité pour une multitude d'exemples bien sordide).
La partie à jeter: les salles d'amphis à son nom, ou de l'éloges posthumes.
Le côté "Chat de Schrödinger" expérience de pensé provocante et marquante restera sans doute dans la pop-culture longtemps...
@davidrevoy I find it weird that type designer, child abuser, bestialist, adulterer – documented in his diary – Eric Gill has been carefully exempted from such critique.
There have been some moves to remove his sculptures, but I've never seen anything big – such as universities, companies and in particular the major publishing, type and graphics software companies, distance themselves from Gill Sans and Perpetua, for instance.
@libroraptor Yes, at least his paragraph on Wikipedia is well detailed for whomever wants to get the info. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Gill#Sexual_abuse .
I just hope poeple will check this before praising the historical figures, to not make more statues or more golden letters to them. The knowledge is now public and sourced.
@echedelle Hi, thank you. I'm affraid if I edit now it will pop in top of the notification of everyone who interacted with the post, and I propably want to avoid this effect now.
I already had two feedback in PM about this, I discussed and, yes, sorry, I feel a CW would have been appropriate to not be exposed by this topic.
I'm learning.
At the same time, the content I put here is minimal, similar to what the title of the CW would have been. The link is the real content, and require action.
Le principe de la superposition d'état est qu'une particule peut être dans deux états à la fois *tant qu'on n'essaye pas de le détecter*. Or le dispositif imaginé consiste en le fait de briser ou pas la fiole de poison en fonction de l'état de la particule, donc nécessite de détecter cet état, donc fait disparaître la superposition. Quel que soit la façon dont on pose les choses, le chat est forcément dans un seul état bien déterminé pendant tout le temps où il est dans la boîte (on ne sait pas lequel, mais c'est une limite de nos connaissances, pas une indétermination quantique).
En effet, son but est de nous faire imaginer une superposition d'état sur quelque chose de plus gros qu'une particule, ce dont on a pas l'habitude. Sauf que si on n'en a pas l'habitude, c'est parce que les interactions « normales » entre particules, sans qu'on ait besoin d'inventer de dispositifs à base de fiole de poison, forcent lesdites particules à se trouver dans des états déterminés chaque fois avant que ça puisse avoir d'effets à notre échelle.
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Donc je pense qu'on peut de toute façon arrêter d'en faire des caisses avec cette histoire de chat dans une boîte sans que ce ne soit une perte terrible. De toute façon, le chat est probablement parti faire la sieste ailleurs, depuis le temps.
(Et je pose https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A9coh%C3%A9rence_quantique là pour la partie théorique)
@davidrevoy @jrod3737 The article is accessible through wikipedia's archived version linked in the page: https://archive.ph/2023.02.27-041053/https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/how-erwin-schr%C3%B6dinger-indulged-his-lolita-complex-in-ireland-1.4749204
@Bibobu Yes, an edit that happened after I published this post. ( src: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Erwin_Schr%C3%B6dinger&action=history ) and it is a good thing. Thanks to the Wikipedian user who did this update and probably keep an eye on the comments here! 💜
(also, yay, French page mention it https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwin_Schr%C3%B6dinger#Abus_sexuels )
#Sexual_abuse #schrodinger #quantum #physics
Wikipedia verlinkt als Quelle obigen Artikel, der wesentliche Differenziertes sagt als die Wikipedia. Das sagt zumindest mal nix gutes über die Artikelqualität der WP 😑 wenn man eine Quelle so "zusammenfasst" und dabei zum gegenteiligen Schluss kommt.
Unabhängig davon sind die Vorwürfe, dazu weiß ich nix 🤷, aber Zweifel dürften mir aktuell noch angebracht sein.
Lesen lohnt sich jedenfalls.
#Sexual_abuse #schrodinger #quantum #physics
In short, if you read the article from DerStandard, it sounds to me very much like Schrödinger knew exactly where to draw the line, skirted close but never crossed it.
Very different from how wikipedia summarizes the article.
@xro Can't read: German and Paywall.
Also, according to the paragraph on Wikipedia, he crossed the line big time with disastrous outcomes.
@davidrevoy I've freed it for you via deepl: https://pads.c3w.at/code/#/2/code/view/mkeleYsMwpZhMMVlxxLUHW6xbo7-1oxEN2KS5ewEc9g/present/ (although I'm not aware of a paywall at derstandard) @xro I'm not that convinced from that article. It all comes down to if Moore reported his findings correct or if they were incorrect (minor dating errors aside). That nobody after him got access to the diaries makes me rather skeptical.
@eest9 @xro Ha, my bad about the paywall: it was probably a screen obscuring the content about aproval for cookies, or a adv for subscribing; but because it was all in German, I thought it was a Paywall adv because the content behind was shadowed and with limited amount of character. I clicked a random button, and the article appeared.
@Harald Hi, please use the 'Talk' tab of the Wikipedia article if you think you have a new source or link and want to contribute. It will be lost if you post the link here without context (especialy because this is an article in German, and I can't read it, but I already did because someone on other comments sent it to me translated in English with DeepL.)
@Harald Hi, if you open the Wikipedia page, and scroll on the top; under the title of the article you have a menu with a "Talk" entry. This section is where editor on Wikipedia and contributor talks to improve the article.
Because you just dropped a link, I thought you wanted to add a source to the article, but you didn't know how to do it. So I tried to guide you to the right part of Wikipedia to do so.
@pm2000 Fortunately, logo like that are still pretty neutral as long as there is no bottle of poison and hammer (the element of the experiment of thought that does reference) just a cat in a box is not a direct reference.
In the comments here, some proposed to just use the name "Quantum cat" instead of naming it "Schrödinger cat", this way it avoids to send too much praising while keeping the pop culture element.